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Author Topic: running the ex5 through computer speakers
Mykel
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posted November 10, 2003 11:05 PM     Profile for Mykel   Email Mykel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello, I've been trying to find a way to hook my ex5 up through a computer soundcard to use the computer as a kind of "digital amp", meaning that the speakers and subwoofer would respond in real time to the audio signal coming from the ex5, essentially acting just like a keyboard amp. Do you know of what programs/adapters I would need to get this to work? I have a soundblaster live 5.1 card and my roomate has the soundblaster audigy 5.1. Thanks.

Mykel


Posts: 83 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mykel
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posted November 10, 2003 11:15 PM     Profile for Mykel   Email Mykel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ok, well we got it working, but the sound levels are inconsistent between my headphones and my roomate's speaker system. Turning it up too loud makes for a pretty distorted sound, but otherwise it's just really quiet, even with the line volume most of the way up. I guess my question now is if you guys know any programs that can give like a digital boost to the volume without causing distortion? is the distortion from his speakers (what I figure) or from something resulting with the sound equalization on his computer? Thanks for any help you can offer.
Posts: 83 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
J. Westwood
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posted November 11, 2003 12:15 AM     Profile for J. Westwood   Email J. Westwood     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Even though computers can sound great playing back EQ'd and mastered WAV's for video games, and MP3's - the EX5 is a pretty 'raw' machine to push through a computer on it's own. I use my computer more as a 'ear to the wall', and it get's a feed through my SP-808, which also goes to my amp and monitors. This way, I can keep the feed at low volumes to the computer, and turn up the amplifier to 'rock the house'. I understand you're a starving student and all, but even a cheap amp from Cash Convertors or Bubba's Used Stereos can help you out until good bucks roll in. If you must be stuck jacking a EX directly into a SB card and what not, I would suggest headphones and/or a headphone junction box if many people are involved. This way you can keep volumes at a minimum to ensure a good recording, which can be improved later with NORMALISE and plugins such as BBE Sonic Maximizer et al.

As far as I know, that's the long and short of it?


Posts: 6371 | From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mykel
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posted November 11, 2003 01:12 AM     Profile for Mykel   Email Mykel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah, I hear you on it being Raw. If there ever was a raw synth, this is it in my opinion. It's actually sounding pretty decent now though, the subwoofer really helps a lot with the low end, and his speakers offer pretty high fidelity. I'm just playing some electronica songs on winamp right now, with my roomate jamming some drum beats out for the songs... He's definately better at turning a keyboard into a beatbox.
Posts: 83 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
adaptus
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posted November 11, 2003 04:00 AM     Profile for adaptus   Email adaptus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Dude, where's my power amp?

If I understand you correctly, there is no point going through your PC soundcard as there is no "adapter" or program that will boost the level of the signal without clipping the underpowered system, you don't need to (and can't) use the pc as a "digital amp"...you can just use it's (self-powered?) speakers with the proper connectors. The EX5 output (master volume) should not be all the way up, it puts out a very hot signal....start with it at the lowest setting and slowly increase it until just before clipping is heard. If you overdrive the speakers or the soundcard you get clipping which results in annoying distortion.

[ November 11, 2003: Message edited by: adaptus ]

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Posts: 1336 | From: FL | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
J. Westwood
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posted November 11, 2003 08:46 AM     Profile for J. Westwood   Email J. Westwood     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
When you hit the 'big time' Mykel, and get to hear your EX through studio monitors at 200w per channel, you'll look at those computer speakers with such disdain...

I blew a set of nice JBL monitors when I first got the EX, as the sounds weren't really 'callibrated' - so a bass even at mid volume just 'kicked' the crap out of my old JBLs But with improved OS's and a better set of monitors all is fine. But the EX can still 'kick' heavy at times, so be careful you don't blow your buddies speakers by accident.


Posts: 6371 | From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jim
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posted November 11, 2003 04:11 PM     Profile for Jim   Email Jim     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hehe, yeah, but I really disagree with you guys, IMHO the EX5 has real presence and good audio - that's what made my ears prick up when I first heard it - and I knew!

In fact, it has such a wide range that if I play the Eurodemo demo song through my Spirit and my Musical Fidelities, there is a stage in the song where the cones are moving in and out at about 0.5Hz, almost at DC!

I have to kick in the subsonic filter for peace of mind, if not of ear

The real issue here is that most regular audio systems, especially SodBlaster cr*p cards (sorry chaps) are just not up to the range the EX5 can kick out!

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Posts: 2548 | From: Stourbridge, West Midlands UK | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
J. Westwood
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posted November 11, 2003 04:45 PM     Profile for J. Westwood   Email J. Westwood     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think that's what we were trying to convey to Mykel Jim? Nothing wrong with how the EX5 sounds, on the contrary it's POWERFUL! Definately! But I think Mykel and his buddies are expecting the EX to be as friendly as a Britney Spears MP3 coming out of their computer, and the EX5 really has to be harnessed in some cases. And not just the EX, but most 'pro audio' gear can't go into the computer 'raw'. It can come out of the computer 'all nice' when mastered and all.
But Mykel and his buddies will eventually have to invest in some gear to hear the EX5 in glorious stereo with cones a vibratin'!

But for now they're 'starving students' and have to make do. I know the feeling - and I'm not even 'learning' anything.


Posts: 6371 | From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mykel
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posted November 12, 2003 10:13 AM     Profile for Mykel   Email Mykel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Indeed, I am not knocking the sound of the ex5 one bit, it's definately incredible in that respect. And I'm also not expecting incredible fidelity from computer speakers, but like I said before it's the only option for both of us to hear the synth at the same time. Other than that all I have is headphones.
Posts: 83 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
J. Westwood
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posted November 12, 2003 10:46 AM     Profile for J. Westwood   Email J. Westwood     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think you can buy a headphone junction box from Radio Shack for like $8.95 or so? Or, at worst you can get a Y connector cable (2 female inputs to one male jack) so you're buddy can jack his headphones in as well.

Just a thought?


Posts: 6371 | From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mykel
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posted November 12, 2003 04:07 PM     Profile for Mykel   Email Mykel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
And a good one at that . The thing is, I've already spent about $15 in the past week on adapters, one of which is a Y adapter, but for 2 1/4" to 1 1/8". This is so I can record in stereo going from the EX5's L and R to my soundcard's line in. I started work on a remix of Aphex Twin's Alberto Balsam (if any of you are familiar with the song), and the sound actually isn't too bad going through the line in. I've also got a Y adapter that is L/R phono to a 1/8", because at home I have cables that I use to run the synth to my receiver, and they are phono on one end. So now I'm trying to figure out which would be better to keep and which would be better to return.
Posts: 83 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ski
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posted November 12, 2003 04:31 PM     Profile for Ski   Email Ski     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I agree with Jim. I know you're trying to save money, or maybe you don't have the money now for good monitors - but that's what you need to do. Buy some good monitors.

We've all been "financially embarrassed" (read that, "poor") at some point(s) in our lives, but the bottom line is that you somehow managed to afford a high quality flagship synth. If you want high quality sound from it, you're going to have to figure out a way to afford some high quality monitors. On the bright side, there are some pretty nice little powered monitors being made today by a lot of different companies, and they won't cost nearly as much as your EX5.

You wouldn't buy a Ferrari, and then put cheap 85 octane gasoline in it, would you?

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Posts: 5252 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mykel
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posted November 12, 2003 10:52 PM     Profile for Mykel   Email Mykel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, I guess my secret will be out eventually, so here it is: I didn't exactly pay topdollar for my ex5. I didn't want to say much about it since I keep reading about many of us here paying a couple grand for theirs, but by selling my old keyboard, I was able to make back all of what I paid minus about 80 dollars. So for that price, I was able to have the best synth I'll probably ever have the money for. As you can see, forking over 80 dollars is different than 1500 for a keyboard. So unfortunately, for the time being there are no high-quality monitors in my near future. I am thinking about selling my guitar (Fender Toronado deluxe) and Amp (Fender Ultimate Chorus), so if I can manage to do that, monitors or a keyboard amp is definately the next thing on my list. To make sure I have this correct, monitors are best for studio work and an amp would be preferable for live performance, correct? Because I will probably doing a lot of both.
Posts: 83 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
yamex5
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posted November 14, 2003 05:02 AM     Profile for yamex5   Email yamex5     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Mykel,
I'm not exactly in the same boat as you, but I did restrict myself to a lower price system (after Ski's last email I probably shouldn't be posting this Anyhow, I did find that at eCOST.com I could get a YST-MS50 80 Watt 3 Piece Speaker System for $59.27 including shipping. It's got 2 20Watt speakers plus a 40Watt Woofer for bass. Although it's just a glorified PC speaker system, it is a way to get "decent" (I know there will be reponses to this!) audio. And at the price of a single text book. And it is getting near Xmas Perhaps some favorite relative could chip in ...?
Mike

Posts: 684 | From: Libertyille IL | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mykel
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posted November 14, 2003 06:05 AM     Profile for Mykel   Email Mykel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, that is in my price range, but I don't see how it's much different than running the ex5 through my Altec Lansing speakers + woofer, as I'm pretty sure they've got at least that much power if not more. I'll see if I can find out for sure.
Posts: 83 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ski
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posted November 14, 2003 09:11 AM     Profile for Ski   Email Ski     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Mykel, I'd strongly suggest you educate yourself on the differences between decent studio reference monitors and computer speakers.

For starters, computer speakers (and home stereo systems, as well) are *not* made to handle the very wide dynamic range that can come from a keyboard rig. If you're unfamiliar with the term "dynamic range", it simply means "range of amplitude"; in this case, it's the range of voltage coming from the output of your rig, to the input of the preamp. In any case, besides poor quality sound when driving the speakers hard, it is VERY easy to destroy computer speakers (or home stereo speakers) with a keyboard rig. IF you have a very good (i.e. expensive) home stereo amplifier and speakers, and assuming you run all your gear through a mixing board and monitor levels *very* carefully, you can use that home stereo system for a keyboard rig at home. It's still dangerous, though, in that if you have just one slip, you can blow the speakers, or even the amp.

I would also never use computer speakers for reference. I haven't seen a computer speaker system yet that has anything approaching a flat frequency response, let alone other qualities (good imaging, fast transient response, etc.) that you want from a studio reference monitor.

You don't have to spend a fortune, but at least get yourself a set of the less expensive powered monitors that are made for use with musical instruments and gear. While the inexpensive monitors won't provide the best sound in the world, it will be a lot better than what you currently have, plus you won't risk blowing your computer speakers, plus you'll have a nice little setup that you can easily tote to small gigs. You might even start enjoying the quality sound from your EX5!

Don't take my word for it. Go do a little research.

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Posts: 5252 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mykel
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posted November 14, 2003 11:35 AM     Profile for Mykel   Email Mykel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Believe me, I have been enjoying the sound of the ex5 since the day that I got it, if at the very least (and I use "least" lightly because the sound quality is excellent) from my headphones. I understand the difference between studio quality monitors and computer speakers, but I was referring to yamex's suggestion of those Yamaha speakers. They are essentially what I already have, so what good would it do to buy those, is what I was actually asking. Believe me I would like get some nice monitors, so maybe christmas will offer me that opportunity.
Posts: 83 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
yamex5
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posted November 14, 2003 12:58 PM     Profile for yamex5   Email yamex5     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ski,
I understand you point, but it's interesting that the YST-MS50 80 was recommended to me by Yamaha. Not by a technician, to be sure, but the predecessor to these, was listed as an EX5 accessory. But I guess you're saying that regardless of their suggestions, it's a bad choice. Oh well ...

Posts: 684 | From: Libertyille IL | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ski
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posted November 14, 2003 01:11 PM     Profile for Ski   Email Ski     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Mike, I think you're missing my point. I didn't say *anything* specifically about the YST-MS50 speakers; I'm not familiar with them. If they're intended for use with musical instruments, then I'd highly recommend them over computer speakers for the reasons stated in my previous post. If, on the other hand, the YST-MS50's are build and sold as "computer speakers" or "multimedia speakers" (you have to love that catch phrase), then they'd probably wouldn't be much better or worse than Mykel's current Altec Lansing computer speakers.

Mykel, if you want to continue using your computer speakers for the EX5, go for it, but I'd highly recommend keeping the EX5's output volume very low in order to protect your computer sound card's preamp and your speakers.

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Posts: 5252 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
adaptus
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posted November 14, 2003 04:55 PM     Profile for adaptus   Email adaptus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm going to agree with the EX-perts. IMHO, unless you are making money at it- you really don't need expensive monitors or studio quality power amps for jamming with the EX- only if you want to make tight recordings.

I use a secondhand onkyo surround sound receiver with 2 speakers and a sub, that was given to me fo' nuttin'. The heat sinks in this old thing are enormous, but it has discrete amps for each channel.

A few years ago this thing would've cost big bucks, these days most people can't give 'em away. Check ebay.

[ November 14, 2003: Message edited by: adaptus ]

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Posts: 1336 | From: FL | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
adaptus
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posted November 14, 2003 05:02 PM     Profile for adaptus   Email adaptus     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
...most of the time I use my lil' Roland MA-8's (That is 8 watts!) fed by mixer to practice and arrange, I can tame the signal with the mixer.

The MA8's crank out a very nice sound for pc-type speakers, you just have to keep a close eye on levels when using them...these speakers are perfect for practicing at night when louder speakers would annoy your neighbors, etc.

[ November 14, 2003: Message edited by: adaptus ]


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Denver
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posted November 30, 2003 08:44 AM     Profile for Denver   Email Denver     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
before i got my monitors i used sound blaster speakers with a sub i just plugged them strait into the headphone jack of the EX but if you want sound spend a little money gets some real speakers you will love what you hear

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Posts: 189 | From: norway | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
yamex5
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posted December 01, 2003 01:25 PM     Profile for yamex5   Email yamex5     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ski:
Mike, I think you're missing my point. I didn't say *anything* specifically about the YST-MS50 speakers; I'm not familiar with them. If they're intended for use with musical instruments, then I'd highly recommend them over computer speakers for the reasons stated in my previous post. If, on the other hand, the YST-MS50's are build and sold as "computer speakers" or "multimedia speakers" (you have to love that catch phrase), then they'd probably wouldn't be much better or worse than Mykel's current Altec Lansing computer speakers.
...


Jeez, Ski!
Yes, the YST-MS50's were recommeded as a substitute for the (I forget what the original EX5 recommended speakers were), but they are indeed "multimedia" speakers, and really don't sound all that great.
It's interesting how the woofer only handles really low frequencies, and there's a big gap in the middle. So I will be looking for something else down the road. But for now, at least, I don't have to keep swapping headphones ...
(What is a "decent" entry speaker/monitor sytem? Something new, so I don't have to search on ebay? )
Mike

Posts: 684 | From: Libertyille IL | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Greg
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posted December 04, 2003 08:56 PM     Profile for Greg   Email Greg     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just my 2 cents.

I obainted this advice from the guy I bought my EX from. DO NOT SETTLE FOR LESS, when it comes to speakers. If it takes a year to save for some good monitors, Save, be patient, wait and be more patient. I started with some really good PC speakers and an SB Live card, still use the SB Live and a Yammie mixer, and I thought it sounded good, but took his advice and got a set of Allesis MK II's (saved for a year)and it's like being heaven when you play. You will hear things in the voices that you never heard before. Also, a good compressor is a must if you push the EX to the edge. I'm with Ski 100% on this one. You won't be sorry.

One more quicky, these little subtle things you'll hear with good monitors, will also enhance your creativity.

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Greg

http://www.lauriastudios.com

EX FOREVER!


Posts: 136 | From: Plainfield, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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