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Author
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Topic: Analog Monster - Now available at EX5Tech
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Ski
EX5Tech Host
Member # 1
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posted May 02, 2004 12:46 AM
    
 All I can say is... WOW! What a great collection of AN Voices that marcE has put together with help from eleven other EX5Tech members!  Get it from our EX5Tech EXclusive Downloads Page now. Many many thanks to marcE, Derek, Torus, and the other Voice authors... Bill
Jim Attfield
MZ
Philth
Powerpop
WD
Yamex5
Zobbe
Now, has anyone perfected that 10 note polyphonic upgrade for the EX5's AN engine??? 
____________________ Ski
www.ex5tech.com
Posts: 5251 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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fuse
EX5Tech Team
Member # 2
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posted May 02, 2004 06:52 AM
Thanks to all for putting together these wonderfull patches!
You can pick up An1x really cheap nowadays.
300 till 350 euro's.
And I'm wondering if Yamaha will ever release a software version of the AN synth. If you look at Korg with their Legacy collection you never now what Yamaha is cooking up in their labs. ____________________ And now for something completely different.
Posts: 1412 | From: Eindhoven,NB | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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yamex5
EX5Tech Veteran
Member # 1094
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posted May 02, 2004 09:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ski:
[QB All I can say is... WOW! What a great collection of AN Voices that marcE has put together with help from eleven other EX5Tech members! Many many thanks to marcE, Derek, Torus, and the other Voice authors... Bill
Jim Attfield
MZ
Philth
Powerpop
WD
Yamex5
Zobbe Now, has anyone perfected that 10 note polyphonic upgrade for the EX5's AN engine??? [/QB]
Everyone, thanks for the effort, as I know everyone has other pressing needs. I do have one observation, given there are 11 authors and 160 voices, the 10 patch limit was not strictly adhered to, but no big deal either way. I also have a question, and *PLEASE* do not jump on me since I am only asking!
While programming the AN voices, I could not help but feel that I could have done virtually everything just as well (if not better) with AWM or AWM+FDSP (FDSP to get ring mod, for example). And given the limitation of one or two voices, does anyone else having programmed both feel the same way? Or am I way off base here?
I should mention that this occurred to me while programming the patches, and Ski's joke about upgrading the AN engine to support 10 voices drives the point home.
Oh yes, and there is the additional problem that only one AN voice can be included in a performance, which is not a limitation of AWM (yes, I know it is the same for FDSP, though).
Mike [ May 02, 2004: Message edited by: yamex5 ]
Posts: 684 | From: Libertyille IL | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged
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Derek Cook
EX5Tech Team
Member # 4
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posted May 02, 2004 01:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by J. Westwood:
Love the graphic as well, is this by the renowned artist known as Sir Ski? 
No, it's yet another TorusGraphic(TM)  BTW: Torus also sweated over the production of the documents, so kudos to Torus for that. Also, I'm sure he won't mind me for saying this, but special thanks must go to MarcE who, despite the major health problems he faces, came up with the lion's share of the patches. I know that doing this was quite an effort for MarcE. Well, I hope for all of you out there that it was worth the wait ... [ May 02, 2004: Message edited by: Da'Cook ] ____________________ Regards,
Derek Cook
Posts: 3867 | From: Wales, UK | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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Ski
EX5Tech Host
Member # 1
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posted May 02, 2004 01:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by yamex5:
I also have a question, and *PLEASE* do not jump on me since I am only asking!
While programming the AN voices, I could not help but feel that I could have done virtually everything just as well (if not better) with AWM or AWM+FDSP (FDSP to get ring mod, for example). And given the limitation of one or two voices, does anyone else having programmed both feel the same way? Or am I way off base here?Mike
Mike, to be sure, a lot of the sounds you can make with the AN engine can be duplicated with a reasonable degree of accuracy using AWM or AWM/FDSP. There *are* a number of things you can do with the AN engine that are unique, though, such as: - Oscillator Sync
- Very flexible audio rate FM (much more than the "Self FM" FDSP algorithm)
- (Real) ring modulation
- Different filters
- Modeled analog white noise
- Oscillator feedback Also, truly *modeled* analog will play and respond a bit differently than sample playback (this applies to real analog as well, of course). For example, the start point of the waveshape won't always be the same, the filters will respond differently with successive notes, key priority (last, low, high) can be set for different playing techniques, etc. I still think that the Yamaha AN engine, while not the most feature laden VA available, is one of the best in terms of accuracy and realism. I say that with several real analog synths to compare it to. And, if you ever get a real analog synth, you'll appreciate the difference even more! ____________________ Ski
www.ex5tech.com
Posts: 5251 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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yamex5
EX5Tech Veteran
Member # 1094
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posted May 02, 2004 02:50 PM
Hi Ski,Some of your points are well taken, and I was not aware of the some of the subtleties regarding filters and waves not triggering the same. I assume that you are saying that Yamaha is adding a random number to the start of the waveform.
However, to be fair (and I know this list will not compare to yours!), I've had an Arp Odyssey, 4 Korg MS-20's (and I had a separate patch book for each, since the HW varied that much), a CS60, an Obie Matris 6, and some other, less distinguished HW. Those units (and they are not the creme de la creme, of course) didn't sound any deeper, although the resonance near the point of self-oscillation I do miss. They also did allow more flexibilty for certain types of modulation, but I found many of those to "machanical" sounding. Personally, on the ideal synth, I would prefer more EG's which could double as an LFO/Oscillator, with a greater frequency range than most LFO's.
And although this is a matter of taste, there is less flexibility with the AN filter (which doesn't self oscillate itself, if I rememeber correctly).
I know the AWM white noise has aliasing problems, so I need to compare that with the AN before I make a judgement. I created a snare drum using white noise, and it didn't seem any different than the AWM noise?
Your point about the oscillator sync I have to take with a grain of salt, because in the analog world, it was a clever way of extending the waveforms, but with AWM there is a much richer palatte to choose from, and the FDSP PWN, Tornado, Self FM allow a close approximation.
Anyhow, regardless, the EX5 is one heck of a synth, and I can't wait to get home and download the voices! (At work  )
Thanks,
Mike
P.S. - I was surprised that Marc supplied the largest share of voices! I didn't even think he was going to contribute, and interestingly, it was his rule not to exceed 10. Hmmm, I wonder if he felt that there weren't enough contributions?
Posts: 684 | From: Libertyille IL | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged
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marce
EX5Tech Veteran
Member # 82
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posted May 03, 2004 08:08 AM
Hey there my friends,
Thank you Ski, Torus, Derek and all the other friends that have worked on this AN collection. You all have done such a marvelous job. I sincerely thank you for this.-Yamex5: Yes, You are completely right. I've created that rule of a maximum of 10 voices cause I was keeping in mind that there would have been posted more than enough. When I was working on my first ten voices, it went so well, that I immediately started on the next 10 to select. After a month I hadn't received that much voices that I almost started to panic. To be honest, I knew that there weren't that much people on this forum that share their sounds, but I had expected more after that month. So I kept on creating new ANsounds, cause that is what I love to do. After 2 months I had so many ANvoices that it would be a pitty not to add them to the project.The more the marier eh? Now You can select .Too much voices, sorry .
Friends, this is not my AN child, but OUR AN child. greetings
marcE
 ____________________ I love Sounds
Posts: 113 | From: Belgium | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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Jim
EX5Tech Team
Member # 494
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posted May 03, 2004 09:00 AM
Hehe, hi marcE, I don't think you can ever have too many voices for such an excellent synth. Your prolific voice creation never ceases to amaze me, my friend, and I thank you for it.While I'm here, respect to the chaps for the great work done on the packaging, it really polishes it off. As to the voices, with the exception of my humble self, I think I have at least one voice from each of the other contributors destined for my 'keeper' collection (not to dis the other voices but to my ears these are the real 'nuggets') and I think that's absolutely fantastic - thanks guys ____________________ Jim
Microsoft browsers are a bit better but still rubbish and leaky, don't tolerate them. Get Firefox now! Run, don't walk! http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
Posts: 2545 | From: Stourbridge, West Midlands UK | Registered: Dec 2001 | IP: Logged
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Ski
EX5Tech Host
Member # 1
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posted May 03, 2004 05:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by yamex5:
Some of your points are well taken, and I was not aware of the some of the subtleties regarding filters and waves not triggering the same. I assume that you are saying that Yamaha is adding a random number to the start of the waveform.
No, Yamaha is not adding a random number to the start of the waveform. Real analog oscillators are always running; they do not stop and start. Therefore, when you turn up the amp and open up the filter (typically by hitting a key on the keyboard, thereby triggering some VCA and VCF envelopes), the given audible waveform never starts in the same place. Does that make sense? A properly *modeled* analog synth should do the same thing, though not all do (I think many "modeled" oscillators actually use samples). In the case of Yamaha AWM or any other sample playback, the waveforms will always start in the same place. quote:
Originally posted by yamex5:
However, to be fair (and I know this list will not compare to yours!), I've had an Arp Odyssey, 4 Korg MS-20's (and I had a separate patch book for each, since the HW varied that much), a CS60, an Obie Matris 6, and some other, less distinguished HW.
Whoa! That's a pretty nice list! I still have a pair of Odysseys - a Mark II and a Mark III. quote:
Originally posted by yamex5:
Those units (and they are not the creme de la creme, of course) didn't sound any deeper, although the resonance near the point of self-oscillation I do miss. They also did allow more flexibilty for certain types of modulation, but I found many of those to "machanical" sounding. Personally, on the ideal synth, I would prefer more EG's which could double as an LFO/Oscillator, with a greater frequency range than most LFO's.
And although this is a matter of taste, there is less flexibility with the AN filter (which doesn't self oscillate itself, if I rememeber correctly).
I know the AWM white noise has aliasing problems, so I need to compare that with the AN before I make a judgement. I created a snare drum using white noise, and it didn't seem any different than the AWM noise?
Your point about the oscillator sync I have to take with a grain of salt, because in the analog world, it was a clever way of extending the waveforms, but with AWM there is a much richer palatte to choose from, and the FDSP PWN, Tornado, Self FM allow a close approximation.
Analog synths (and to a lesser degree, well modeled virtual analog synths) have a sound unto themselves that can't be well duplicated using sample playback, and keep in mind that only the EX5/7/R has FDSP. However, it all boils down to personal preference. A given individual may or may not like analog sound. It sounds like you might not, and that's perfectly OK. I DO like analog, but I look at it this way: Analog is another nice color to add to your palette of sounds. I don't look at analog as a better way than digital to recreate every sound in the world.Also, regarding your desire for more EGs... you should check out an Evolver (or Poly Evolver), or a used Yamaha CS-30 or CS-30L if you can find one. All of those are real analog, have three envelope generators, and a very flexible modulation scheme. All but the CS-30L also have step sequencers that can in effect be used as repeating EGs (albeit "stairstepped" EGs). You might also be intrigued by some of the new boutique modular analog synths being made today, though they tend to be expensive. BTW, you knew you could make your envelopes repeat on your Odyssey, right? ____________________ Ski
www.ex5tech.com
Posts: 5251 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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yamex5
EX5Tech Veteran
Member # 1094
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posted May 05, 2004 09:13 PM
Hi Ski, quote:
Real analog oscillators are always running; they do not stop and start.
Really? I thought they were triggered on when you depress a key. Do they oscillate at the last played frequency? Does where in the waveform a wave starts really make a difference though? My understanding is that if you have the same harmonic content, and the phase of the harmonics is the same, that the audio will sound identical. quote:
still have a pair of Odysseys - a Mark II and a Mark III.
Gee, Ski! You have a way of one-upping people! Really, TWO ODYSSEYS! You must have a museum at your house. I sold my odyssey after a year and a half to help pay for the Korgs.
And since that was 25 years ago (approximately?), I don't even remember if I knew then that the envelopes could be made to repeat.
And at this point, I am truly maxed out. All I want now is the SCSI adaptor and, if I can find one at a good price, an FS1R. Heck, I could die happy with just the EX5, to tell the truth!
quote:
... keep in mind that only the EX5/7/R has FDSP.
I know Ski, but I guess I should have made it clear that I was comparing AWM on the EX5 to the AN on the EX5, not AWM in general.
And last, but not least:
quote:
... Whoa! That's a pretty nice list!
I didn't have these at the same time, though I must admit, each one of them made me happy at the time. Honestly though, with few exceptions, I can do everything with the EX5 that I could ever have done on any of them.
Although, linking two MS-20's REALLY gave you two filters, with two completely different resonance, cutoff and EG settings. I *do* wish that Yamaha had gone all the way with the dual dynamic filters on the EX5.
But then, I've got 4 elements!
Ha, see that Ski! The EX5 compares with 4 Korg MS-20's (almost).
Mike
Posts: 684 | From: Libertyille IL | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged
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Derek Cook
EX5Tech Team
Member # 4
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posted May 06, 2004 03:23 PM
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but depending on the filter mode you set, then an element can have dual filters.OK, not with a high pole count, but dual filters all the same? And then there's the SCF's that can do a fair bit of shaping of the waveform before it gets to the main filter. Take what you can do with an element and then allow for four of them, and that's a pretty powerful package to me. If there's one problem with the EX, it's that there's so many parameters to tweak! ____________________ Regards,
Derek Cook
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- MZ -
EX5Tech Veteran
Member # 101
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posted May 30, 2004 05:17 AM
Just a few words about ANalog Monster : great idea, great project, great sounds ! While programming sounds for the AN projet, I went deeper in the AN engine than I had ever (given the time I could spend on it) and I noticed that it is a real semi-modular synth !  Here is the full matrix  : you can patch
- fixed, PEG, FEG, LFO1, LFO2 to SYNC slave pitch mod
- PEG, FEG, LFO1, LFO2, VCO1, VCO1s, VCO2 to FM source (modulator)
- fixed, PEG, FEG, LFO1 or LFO2 to FM mod (depth of modulation)
- LFO1, LFO2 to VOCO1 pitch
- LFO1, LFO2 to VOCO2 pitch
- fixed, PEG, FEG, LFO1, LFO2, LFO2p (phase + 60°), LFO2f (freq. up) to VCO1 PWM
- fixed, PEG, FEG, LFO1, LFO2, LFO2p (phase + 60°), LFO2f (freq. up) to VCO2 PWM
---------------------
MarcE posted December 19, 2003 12:29 PM
If the sounds are joined, it's possible that there will be a slight alteration to the master volume. This will be done to give all the sounds the same volume and to save our precious ears ;-) MarcE posted March 03, 2004 02:40 PM I'm going to ... bundle up all the sounds and tweak them (make them all the same volume).
--------------------- If you need a consistant volume throughout all the patches with no risk to blow your speakers, that's OK. But let's not forget that a virtual analog is a digital synth, so reducing the master volume (>COMMON>Volume parameter of the patch) is like sampling with a lot of headroom (please see "Ski's sampling tricks" to understand what I mean) and can reduce punch or bite for some sounds (you can notice that with good studio monitors). So you can improve some patches (leads, basses, syncs...) just by restoring the >COMMON>Volume parameter to the default value of 100 (turn down the channel volume on the console before playing you EX...)
Regards to the community,
____________________ - MZ -
Posts: 151 | From: France | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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Ski
EX5Tech Host
Member # 1
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posted September 06, 2004 01:53 PM
Chances are, you just have a bad floppy disk.Try a new diskette. You should be able to format the disk with either PC or EX5. Copy the .s1v to the new diskette, and give it another whirl. ____________________ Ski
www.ex5tech.com
Posts: 5251 | From: Texas | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged
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Mr. Rock
EX5Tech Veteran
Member # 1881
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posted May 03, 2005 09:39 PM
Hi All,Just wondering, can these patches be loaded into an AN1X? Regards,
Gary ____________________ E=MCēą3db
Posts: 104 | From: New York | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged
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Derek Cook
EX5Tech Team
Member # 4
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posted May 05, 2005 10:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Rock:
Hi All,Just wondering, can these patches be loaded into an AN1X? Regards,
Gary
I'm afraid not, as they're in the EX "S1V" file format, which I don't think the AN1X could read. Also there are differences between the EX5 and the AN1x voice architectures. ex.factory can go from AN1 format to S1V format, but I'm not aware of anything that can do it the other way around. ____________________ Regards,
Derek Cook
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
posted May 03, 2004 01:02 PM
posted May 03, 2004 09:34 PM
. Thanks to MarcE and all the contributors.
posted May 06, 2004 08:35 PM
