I have got the ASIB1 board and an external SCSI drive which works fine. I came across the possibility of instlling a internal zip into the EX5 which is in fact more practical than the external solution.

My question is - has anyone of you installed an internal zip? First of all I need to know - what zip drive would fit into it and has got the appropriate connectors - further else I need a scsi cable (50 pin) - is this a special cable? and perhaps you could tell me precisely how to connect the drive to the asib1 board.

sorry I have not a scsi board inside my Ex5 either an external drive like a zip iomega (100 or 250MB).
Anyway, I believe, if I well remember, that Great Ex5-Users experienced only a JAZZ inside the Ex5 (obviously replacing the floppy drive...), not a ZIP iomega.
But I have no direct experience, so I hope other Users will answer you!
Cheers

quote:

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Originally posted by stiegi:
Dear Community!

My question is - has anyone of you installed an internal zip? First of all I need to know - what zip drive would fit into it and has got the appropriate connectors - further else I need a scsi cable (50 pin) - is this a special cable? and perhaps you could tell me precisely how to connect the drive to the asib1 board.

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Hi there,
any internal SCSI ZIP100 or ZIP250 will do. You rather check for a 250MBversion, because it can read the 100MB media as well. And it will fit into the place of the floppydrive, plus it has the same powerconnector.
I haven't opened my EX5Rs in awhile, but there should be an internal 50pin SCSIconnector on the SCSIboard and the drive has the same, so you'll need the standard 50pin flatcable. Keep it short, so air for cooling the EX5 can still travel unblocked through the synth.
You gotta be careful about termination the SCSIline. Only units at the end should be terminated, so you terminate the ZIP (see jumpersettings on top of the drive, they are normally printed on) and switch the SCSIboard to "no termination". You should still be able to connect an external SCSI-CDromdrive (which needs to be terminated then as well) for copying files to and fro..

Hope I could help..
Malte

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Thanks for your info about the scsi internal zip. Unfortunately I did not find any SCSI zip drive neither 100MB nor 250MB (only external ones) and they said that iomega has not build such drives. I only found 250MB internal zip drive (ATAPI) which is not the same as SCSI I guess.

quote:

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Originally posted by stiegi:
Hello again!

Is it possible to use a ATAPI internal zip drive instead of the SCSI zip drive (perhaps with an atapi scsi adapter)?

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Only if you can find such an adapter which does not require any drivers to be loaded.

An alternative route possible if you have the ASIB1 card is to install an internal SCSI compact flash drive, also much more reliable than ZIP. A search here will turn up lots of resources on the subject.

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you mentioned the CF option... I know there are some very long discussion about it in this forum, but IT SEEMS (sorry my English is so bad! ) that it is not very reliable and functioning... Isn'it?
I'm probably going OFF topic, but might you give us the last sentence about this solution, please?
Cheers,
Lab.

I think the solution with the internal scsi card reader is too complicated for me. My question is - there are EX5 with integrated scsi zip drive (I saw it on ebay auction).

Does anyone know if this integrated drive is a "true" scsi zip drive or do they use an an scsi atapi adapter? I ask this cause I searched through the whole internet and did not find a 100MB / 250MB internal scsi zip drive (floppy power connector 5V and 50 pin scsi and 3,5 inch size). What I found was an internal 1/2 GB jaz scsi drive but the question is if this works with the EX5 and there is again the problem of data transfer to the jaz disk. Now I am using a fujitsu computer with external zip drive to transfer data under windows 98 onto a zip disk and put it into the EX5 so that i can read it correctly. If the EX5 works with an scsi jaz drive I would have to buy an external jaz also. Anyone who can help me?

Does anyone know - is the internal SCSI connector of the ASIB1 board scsi1 or scsi2 - standard? I ask this cause I found out that there are different internal scsi internal zip drives. Does a scsi zip with 8-bit (scsi-1 transferratet) work together with the scsi connector of the asib1 board or does it require a scsi internal zip drive with scsi-2?

quote:

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Originally posted by labo:
Hello mr. Jim

you mentioned the CF option... I know there are some very long discussion about it in this forum, but IT SEEMS (sorry my English is so bad! ) that it is not very reliable and functioning... Isn'it?
I'm probably going OFF topic, but might you give us the last sentence about this solution, please?
Cheers,
Lab.

[ October 07, 2011: Message edited by: labo ]

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In fact, with the PCD-47B I can have two CF cards (one via a PCMCIA->CF adapter) and a smart-media card loaded as well and switch between them all. Having used SCSI CD-ROM, Magneto-Optical,external HD and internal/external JAZ drives on the EX along the way I would now use nothing else.

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quote:

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Originally posted by stiegi:
Hello!

I think the solution with the internal scsi card reader is too complicated for me. My question is - there are EX5 with integrated scsi zip drive (I saw it on ebay auction).

Does anyone know if this integrated drive is a "true" scsi zip drive or do they use an an scsi atapi adapter? I ask this cause I searched through the whole internet and did not find a 100MB / 250MB internal scsi zip drive (floppy power connector 5V and 50 pin scsi and 3,5 inch size). What I found was an internal 1/2 GB jaz scsi drive but the question is if this works with the EX5 and there is again the problem of data transfer to the jaz disk. Now I am using a fujitsu computer with external zip drive to transfer data under windows 98 onto a zip disk and put it into the EX5 so that i can read it correctly. If the EX5 works with an scsi jaz drive I would have to buy an external jaz also. Anyone who can help me?

Regards, Lex

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The JAZ drive is a much more compatible option (1Gb preferred for maximum compatibility due to block sizes) as the EX can drive them directly and they are compatible with JAZ drives on PC without having to load the IOMEGAWare software (which is needed for full ZIP compatibility). The JAZ drive does have it's own reliability issues (the widely reported click of death) as does the ZIP drive. Both can be made to work, both need the ASIB1 for the simplest implementation and both are getting harder to find these days. If you have to implement something which is hard to find the CF option is the most reliable and likely to be the most successful if you have to go the SCSI->ATAPI->CF adapter route.

Although I haven't seen it formally printed anywhere as yet with a 50-pin HD connector on the back and 50-conductor cables internally I think the EX qualifies as a SCSI-II machine but that doesn't necessarily mean you can't use SCSI-I devices on it, just not SCSI-III.

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This forum here is really very helpful. Sometimes we make things more complicate than they are in reality. Hmm the thing is I want to try out a zip drive first cause I dont´t want to buy another jaz for my pc gg. Anyways I ordered a scsi internal drive - I hope the cable I have got will fit otherwise I need to go for the appropriate cable which is the easiest part of it.

As mentioned my external zip works fine but it´s not an elegant solution at all - you have got 2 cables hanging around - not really hard work but not professional for such a majestic instrument.

For those who also want to replace the floppy by an internal zip I am trying the following way - I ordered the zip already

iomega zip drive model z100si
50-pin ribbon (scsi) cable
I also have to check the termination (I think it has to be on cause the drive will be at the end of the chain) and the jumper settings - are these the same as for the external zip?

I will let you know if it works.

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Cu Malte

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I have got a few question concerning the connection of the internal scsi zip and the asib board of the EX5. Can I use any 50-pin internal scsi cable? Is it correct that the internal cable has to female connectors (one for the drive and the other for the asib board). Where do I have to attach the cable to the asib board? I saw that the flat cables provide connection to more drives. If I only want to attach one zip at the end of the cable this is ok?

don't you have any manual coming with the ASIB1? Gotta open one of my EX5Rs for checking the connections again, it's a while ago..
SCSIconnectors on cables usually are female. You can use any pair of connectors you want. Because you will only need two you could even cut off the unused cable.

cu
Malte

[ October 09, 2011: Message edited by: Malte Krug ]

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just did some research. Download the EX5manual here: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/manual/german/index.php

In the AppendixSection is a description how to install the ASIB1 properly into the EX5. Just use the remaining SCSIsocket on the ASIB for connecting the internal ZIP.

That's about it..

cu
Malte

[ October 09, 2011: Message edited by: Malte Krug ]

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Thanks a lot for your help. I don´t have a manual for the ASIB1 board since I bought it used without one. Anyways I managed everything in the meantime. I already installed the ASIB1 board and it works fine. I have got also the appropriate cable and there is only one appropiate connector on the ASIB1 board. I took out the floppy from the EX5 already and wait for the scsi zip to arrive. It´s really sipmple indeed.

I bought an internal scsi zip from iomega - iomega z100si and replaced the floppy drive with it. I connected everything inside but when I put a zip disk into the drive it always write disk not ready or illegal disk or sometimes scsi error.

Perhaps someone can help me with the following questions

1.) the scsi asib board is terminated ON - is this correct I think the scsi zip is also terminated

2.) utility - scsi ID is set to 2

3.) there is a spot on the asib board which indicates the first pin - there has to be the red line of the 50-pin scsi cable is this correct?

4.) is it possible that the invalid function has something to do with the driver settings of the zip drive itself i.e. perhaps the model i not able to communicate with the operating system of the EX5

5.) when I first put in a correct formatted zip the drive was very silent but afterward it would make some noise everytime I put it in again - what does this mean?

Perhaps you can help me with some of the above questions.

Does anyone know a working zip or jazz model for the internal connection with the EX5?

just to get some more detail:

On 'Utility' page you used a different SCSI-ID for the EX5 than the one which is jumpered at the ZIP?
SCSI-IDs need to be unique for every unit in the chain.

cu
Malte

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I tried every scsi-id number from 1-7 but it did not work and with id 3 it wrote "scsi error". Perhaps the scsi zip drive is broken but it will give some noise when I put in a zip disk as if it is reading it. I think it depends on the operating system the drive was built for - normally it is used in a computer with windows or something like that - perhaps it is not compatible with the operating system of the EX5.

I am not sure but perhaps I am trying another scsi zip. When I run the test mode in the EX5 it says scsi ok - this would normally mean that the connection with the zip drive is ok but as I wrote it will write illegal disk (as if it is not right connected to the zip). When I put scsi terminator on off and the zip is connected the EX5 does not boot at all. I tried this cause someone wrote that it has to be off.

I think I will give the dream of internal zip up. If you are not a high technician you have got no chance at all.

quote:

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Originally posted by stiegi:
Hello Malte!

I tried every scsi-id number from 1-7 but it did not work and with id 3 it wrote "scsi error".

I think I will give the dream of internal zip up. If you are not a high technician you have got no chance at all.

Regards,

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Hi again,

did you check out only one ZIPmedia? I had to dump a few dozen ZIPdisks ages ago, because somebody low-level formatted them which rendered them useless (means: broken)

Shouldn't make any difference to use ZIP internally or externally. I wouldn't give up that easy.

Which is your EX5's SCSI-ID? I presume it's 3 and that's because the EX5 was giving out an error.
It's worth checking out the termination again. Sometimes SCSI behaves against the rules and it works better when you don't terminate, although the book says you should. That happens sometimes with short SCSI connections. So try all 4 variations (SCSIboard term ON/OFF and ZIPterm ON/OFF in all possible combinations)

Does anybody know, if unplugging the floppydiskdrive has some effect on the handling of other drives? If so, you need to keep it plugged in and strapped inside the EX5, but this is just a wild guess.

cu
Malte

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I have tried out every possibility of jumper settings and also different zip media disks without success. What I found out is that when I use my external drive the green lamp always is on whereas with the internal drive it lights up only when I put a zip disk into it or something is going on. For me this indicates that the EX5 tries to get connection with the drive without success. When I use the external drive (the settings are termination OFF and ID=6 which I also applied to the internal drive) it writes zip-100 (it recognises it) but with the internal drive it writes illegal disk - and when I try to access it - disk not ready.

I did not expect that this is so complicated. Next thing I try out is another zip internal. The problem is that there is only IOMEGA Z-100si which fits into the EX5 and has got the appropiate connectors. Internal jazz drives are impossible to find and have complicated connectors as well.

I think they designed the ASIB1 board for scientist and not for normal users - sad but true.

you got me curious. My second EX5r is not crammed into a studiorack, like my main EX5r, but I won't have hands on it for a few days.
Give me a bit of time and I will check if I will experience the same hassle than you while installing a ZIP internally.

cu
Malte

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Thank you very much for your support. I am not giving up gg! It would be nice if you could test your equipment - do you have an IOMEGA z100si as well? Otherwise we can´t really compare it.

I have already ordered a new scsi zip, 10 completely new zip disks. By the way did you know that there is also another iomega zip model? I found it by accident - iomega z100s2 - perhaps this one would solve the problem but it´s even harder to find as the iomega z100si. I am also looking out for a new 50-pin scsi cable - but I don´t really believe that this is the reason for all the hazzle. Do you believe that is has got something to do with the lenght of the cable?

The funny thing is that the blue external iomega 100 zip works absolutely brilliant - even when ASIB is terminated on AND external zip is terminated ON. But the whole thing is too complex - of course both drives use the same ASIB board technology - but in fact they are DIFFERENT types of drive - what about internal drivers, specifications, operating system - that`s the point I think where the EX5 has got a problem with.

Do you know if the EX5 runs the same "software" for external and internal drive?

Sometimes problems have simple solutions - someone wrote that his drive did not work cause the bracket that hold the drive were mounted too fast - afterwards it would work properly - technique is really a funny thing.

That´s all for now,

I have got another question. Does anybody know which internal cable I have to use for internal iomega z100si model drive

There are two different scsi 50-pin ribbon cable on the market:

scsi-1 cable
scsi-2 cable

quote:

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Originally posted by stiegi:
Hello again!

I have got another question. Does anybody know which internal cable I have to use for internal iomega z100si model drive

There are two different scsi 50-pin ribbon cable on the market:

scsi-1 cable
scsi-2 cable

Regards,

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by stiegi:
But the whole thing is too complex - of course both drives use the same ASIB board technology - but in fact they are DIFFERENT types of drive - what about internal drivers, specifications, operating system - that`s the point I think where the EX5 has got a problem with.

Do you know if the EX5 runs the same "software" for external and internal drive?

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The ZIP drive has the additional complication that if you want to use it in the EX and a PC then according to those who run them the disks must be properly prepared with the Iomega software on the PC first.

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Thx for your info - I don´t believe that the problem is caused by an invalid cable but in case I change it it´s good to know that I can´t buy anything wrong gg

As you wrote here the whole topic doesn´t seem so complicated as I thought as far as compatibility goes. I ordered a new device already and trying it time and again. I will also format the disks on PC und WIN98 with iomega tool and take care of the right termination and scsi adressing. Perhaps I did something wrong - there are 2 jumpers one is for the termination and the other is for the scsi adress. I think I will go to an electronic shop or ask an electrician if my settings are correct. If I don´t manage to get it work it´s not the end of the world cause I still can use the external drive.

Nice greetings from Austria to all EX5 members

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Nice to hear from you again. Did you already test your equipment with my "little problem"?

Would be nice if you have got some time to do this.

Yes you are right the development as far as technique is concerned is moving so fast especially computers that everybody knows nothing in the end. There is some sort of specialization I guess and modules are assembled together.

Well there is a draft on the iomega z100si which shows the "circuit diagram" of the jumpers to be set but I want to make sure if I really understood what they mean. I think that a hobby electronic has got more experience in this field than I.

Good news is on the way. I finally succeeded in installing the zip drive!!!! The iomega z100si works.

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It worked fine but I recall of a few issues: the disks had to be software "unlocked" on a Mac/PC and the drive came with a jumper-enabled SCSI resistive terminators already installed on it. I did have to make sure that the Zip disks were not software locked whenever I used them with the EX5R.

Good old times...
DrF